In this episode, hosts Yadin Porter de Leon and Jessica Hreha welcome Hadley Ferguson, Director of Global Content, Community Operations at Uber. The discussion focuses on Uber's successful custom integration of AI tools at scale, highlighting how it serves as a "source of truth" for centralizing knowledge, ensuring compliance and brand consistency, automating content generation (over one million saved replies and 50,000 help center articles), and improving agent efficiency. Hadley also shares insights on integrating AI into existing workflows and proactively identifying support needs. The episode explores what it means for an organization to "Leverage AI," the necessary changes to make it happen, and the strategic intent behind such initiatives. Tune in for practical strategies, team and tool considerations, and the real business impact of AI implementation in a large enterprise.
In this episode, hosts Yadin Porter de Leon and Jessica Hreha welcome Hadley Ferguson, Director of Global Content, Community Operations at Uber. The discussion focuses on Uber's successful custom integration of AI tools at scale, highlighting how it serves as a "source of truth" for centralizing knowledge, ensuring compliance and brand consistency, automating content generation (over one million saved replies and 50,000 help center articles), and improving agent efficiency. Hadley also shares insights on integrating AI into existing workflows and proactively identifying support needs. The episode explores what it means for an organization to "Leverage AI," the necessary changes to make it happen, and the strategic intent behind such initiatives. Tune in for practical strategies, team and tool considerations, and the real business impact of AI implementation in a large enterprise.
LinkedIn: Hadley Ferguson, Director of Global Content, Community Operations at Uber
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:14
Hadley Ferguson
There's a bit of just walking it and kind of going along together and sharing the failures and sharing the learnings. And then as a leader, building the trust with other teams around you so that there's support externally, especially for teams like service you maybe who are doing something for another group. Like I want them to feel comfortable that I've got their back, that all other teams are expecting this and they're not going to be blindsided.
00:00:25:15 - 00:00:51:09
Hadley
Try to make things the absolute best, like our vision for our team is creating world class knowledge for human machines.
Yadin Porter de León
Welcome to the Edge podcast for Enterprise Marketers, a show dedicated to sharing insights, strategies and experiences from a group of experts who have successfully implemented solutions in a large enterprise B2B software company, specifically in the context of global marketing and how that effort can connect to sales, its product and the rest of the business.
00:00:51:09 - 00:01:08:03
Yadin
I'm meeting in Porto de Leon and I'm joined by my fellow host, The Amazing, the wonderful Jessica Rhea. Jessica, what have you been doing? Where in the world is Jessica maria? That's the game I always like to play every episode.
Jessica Hreha
I am at home and I've not been on a plane in almost a month. Can you believe it?
00:01:08:05 - 00:01:30:19
Yadin
Oh, one month plane free.
Jessica
I'm actually really enjoying it.
Yadin
That is amazing.
Jessica
Yeah. The kids sports are all overlapping right now, like 3 to 4 sports plus end of season all star stuff. So it's been crazy. And I'm loving my overscheduled kid's life. Yes.
Yadin
Just immersing.
Jessica
So I'm like, I was the creator of it and I enjoy it.
00:01:30:19 - 00:01:37:12
Jessica
So it's good to be home.
Yadin
That's fabulous. And so there was one of those events. I think your laptop took a water bath. What happened there?
00:01:37:12 - 00:01:55:12
Jessica
Yeah, well, don't put your laptop in the same bag as your water bottle, especially if you put the water bottle back in your bag, like when the lid is not on all the way. So just little life lessons there from this podcast.
Yadin
Yeah, I know I did that once, but it was just my kids jacket. But then she was cold, so that didn't work out well.
00:01:57:19 - 00:02:05:19
Yadin
So we do have a special guest. I'm super excited. Hadley, Ferguson and Hadley. Ferguson. Before I let her speak, I'm going do a whole little intro.
00:02:05:21 - 00:02:36:19
Yadin
Hadley Ferguson leads global content and Uber's community operations, overseeing a team of over 200 professionals who develop and maintain the critical knowledge resources powering Uber's worldwide support system. She is like people all over the world, so her slack is like blown up. With over 12 years at Uber, Hadley has significantly shaped the company's support experience managing content for support agents, self-service help, articles for customers and earners, and content optimized for API driven support.
00:02:37:01 - 00:03:00:19
Yadin
She has been instrumental in supporting the implementation of AI tools to deliver personalized, contextualized support experiences that meet users precisely where they are. Hadley Now that I built you up all but welcome to the Edge podcast.
Jessica
Welcome.
Hadley Ferguson
Thanks. Do we think I wrote the intro for me? What do we think?
Jessica
I mean, I think that's what this is all about, right?
00:03:00:21 - 00:03:15:02
Hadley
Right.
Jessica
I couldn't tell. It wasn't overly AI.
Yadin
No, I think I grabbed it. I grabbed it. I think from a source somewhere. I think I grabbed it online.
Hadley
Did you?
Yadin
Yeah. I think this is written somewhere
Hadley
Like Dedica? I don't know. Anyway, it might be. Who knows where it came from?
00:03:15:02 - 00:03:25:13
Jessica
But did you like it? I mean, who cares if AI wrote it?
Hadley
I love it. I love it. It makes me sound so important and so accomplished.
Yadin
You are important.
00:03:26:03 - 00:03:40:21
Jessica
I kept thinking about how easy it is to get a refund with Uber if something happened, and it was the most streamlined experience I've ever had. So thank you.
Yadin
Wow. That's fabulous.
Hadley
Amazing. Amazing. We work a lot on those automations.
00:03:40:21 - 00:04:02:01
Hadley
And right now, those are handwritten, not automated, but there's a lot of machine learning behind them. But yeah, our content site is still the old way and we are actually figuring out ways to make it more seamless and make it more user friendly.
Jessica
Wow. Kudos.
Yadin
Well, yes. Oh, that's fabulous. Well, your NPS score in this podcast is perfect right now at least our.
00:04:02:03 - 00:04:21:22
Hadley
Amazing. I'm going to take that back and see if it can go into our. So you said surveys. No one starts ...
Yadin
So listeners of the show know that each show would like to go over the following. You go for topics and objectives, strategy and tactics, teams and tools. Business impact at the end. We do a lightning round, so kicking it off for the objective today.
00:04:22:00 - 00:04:38:09
Yadin
It is really about leveraging A.I. is one of the things that people talk about a ton. Like when we leverage A.I., we need an AI strategy or we need to build A.I. into our strategy, or I need to be leveraging AI and who workflows then use the rubber meets the road and both of you, Jessica, and have a lot of experience around this.
00:04:38:11 - 00:04:59:17
Yadin
So to you, how what does it really mean when your organization is leveraging A.I.?
Hadley
Yeah, I was actually thinking about that. I was with a different leadership team this week as like moonlighting on a U.S. and CAT leadership team to understand what they're up to with some partners, like in more in the business side of Uber. So within support.
00:04:59:17 - 00:05:16:21
Hadley
And so it was really interesting as I thought about this question and I was thinking a ton of what it means for my team and like, why would we really do it? Is it to be faster? Is it to remove a task? We have to do an automated is it to make something better and ultimately make a user experience like Jessica's refined experience sopristine?
00:05:16:21 - 00:05:31:11
Hadley
Because the way that the copy is written, it's world class or is it a mix of all the things? And is it also to make people excited? And so I was thinking about it because I was listening to how these teams are kind of wrestling with it as well and you know, their use cases different be program managers and different roles.
00:05:31:11 - 00:05:52:21
Hadley
But it got me thinking for myself right now, what is it really? I think there's kind of two things. There's one we have this part of our strategy where we say we really want to develop like world class talent and we want people to want to join our team to become experts in the field, like come to content team within Uber and leave and Globemaster master or something to get people there.
00:05:52:22 - 00:06:14:07
Hadley
And then, of course, we we do want to meet our customers for experiences. So much better. Experience is just such a big piece of what we do. And I think because we grew so quickly, it was hard to master that and to even understand, to really kind of fine tune it and to understand what it should be. So when I think about it, there's really two pieces like I really want our teams to take A.I. as their copilot.
00:06:14:07 - 00:06:30:15
Hadley
So like, overuse that term, which really, especially as a content team, there's so many things you can do to make your experience with someone you're partnering with, like with the business or in the work you do easier. It can be quicker. You can get to like that first round quicker, you can then get to something more important after that and kind of move on.
00:06:30:15 - 00:06:46:09
Hadley
So I really want it to be that they can grow skills and something that's new and transformational because this is going to be a transformational time in everyone's career no matter what you end up doing with it. But I want to instill that. And then like, how can you use this to your best advantage and comment now really to work on those skills?
00:06:46:11 - 00:07:03:04
Hadley
And then the second piece is how can we use it to really push the envelope of making things that much better? We do huge scale and what we have to do. And so I think when we look at it from that perspective, it will evolve. But I really feel like your point on the Karma Gemini finding a common mistake.
00:07:03:06 - 00:07:21:10
Hadley
We want to find every single mistake. Like why should anything ever go out the door again? That or does it have the tone we want it to have has a term that's not really fitting in where it is. And I think that there's so many tools out there to kind of assist with that. And we really definitely value the human in the loop. But I think there's a huge part of leveraging it.
00:07:22:13 - 00:07:41:11
Yadin
Yeah, I think there's so much in what you're talking about there. One of the big things, though, is I think building that into the way that you're operating I think is really interesting because like you said, you want people to come in and they want them to have sort of this world class upskilling level up experience so that they then go out into the world and do even greater things because they're masters of all this stuff.
00:07:42:11 - 00:08:04:12
Yadin
But I think there's a lot of stuff that needs to change within organizations for that to actually I've got experience with that. Work habits have been one of the biggest barriers in changing workflows, in implementing tools in light of truly leveraging A.I., like making it a part of how you work. And I wonder if you could talk about that because I actually was just noodling on that in the last couple of days were just habits.
00:08:04:12 - 00:08:22:21
Yadin
And I just see people who are deeply technical or love change or innovative but have not changed the way that they work and think and build and connect just because they've built habits over their careers. And if you can speak to that and some of the other things to that that you felt needed a change within the organization to really leverage AI.
00:08:24:02 - 00:08:40:02
Hadley
Yeah, this has been heavily in our mind too, because I think we we see people use it a lot for parts of their job, but it might not be what we intended it for and on a bad way more just a you might see someone using it more to write emails versus, you know, your content creator and you're not using the tool that's in your toolkit to write the content.
00:08:41:23 - 00:09:00:05
Hadley
Super interesting. Like what is it? Is it how you use it? Once you lost trust quickly, you were like, I can do that better. Is that concern like different process? This is going to be on? How's my job going to be? So I think we've got a really big mix of those things and the pieces that I really thought about, like what needs changes need to take place and make that happen.
00:09:00:07 - 00:09:17:09
Hadley
We are in an operations ERGs. I do find that people, myself included, you kind of get really stuck to a process like it's such a comfort zone and you're like, Well, that's what I do. I create a structure in a chaotic world and that's my livelihood. And so I think stepping outside of that to use and your tool can feel really scary.
00:09:17:11 - 00:09:34:01
Hadley
So some things that I've been thinking to try and push myself as well, what are the skills you need to do? Is is it more like critical thinking slash a little bit of the growth mindset kind of skillset mindset type of thing? And then also that push and that support to feel like you can take a risk even if it isn't a risk.
00:09:34:03 - 00:09:52:19
Hadley
Well, on a broad scale, maybe it's on a macro risk. It may be in someone who's in a very different position than me. Their risk looks so different than what I might say. You know, my might be like, let's do something crazy, you know, go test a whole new thing. And I can do that. There's might just be to use I for a request that someone has shared with them about creating an automation question.
00:09:52:19 - 00:10:15:17
Hadley
Like what if it doesn't turn out well? What if they get mad that I use it? What if they don't like it? And so I'm trying to push myself more in the shoes of the teams that are using it and think through like, How can I help? How can we kind of break down those barriers? I think for leaders in this really feels like it trends like way outside of just what I do, because I think we've overall as a company, you've made a big commitment to like we are going to be a tech driven, tech transformation driven team like AI driven, like we need to be using it for everything.
00:10:15:19 - 00:10:33:21
Hadley
So when you ask yourself, how can I do something two times faster or whatever, ten times faster, how can I do it tomorrow versus next month? Well, how would you do that? What would you use? And so I think for my team, I'm trying to show as well how we're doing that and think about sometimes it's like the critical thinking skill, like, okay, if I do need to do it quicker, what would I have to change to do that?
00:10:33:23 - 00:10:53:19
Hadley
But I think there's a lot of things and I'm trying to push myself to kind of model the behavior versus relying on a change management plan or like a really beautiful like, we'll be here and then we'll be here and then we'll be over here. Then the later and it says Nice people evolution. You've got skills, you've got process change, you have marketing.
00:10:53:21 - 00:11:11:05
Hadley
I think that's helpful too. But there's a bit of just walking it and kind of going along together and sharing the failures and sharing the learnings. And then as a leader, building the trust with other teams around you so that there's support externally, especially for teams that are like service you maybe who are doing something for another group.
00:11:11:05 - 00:11:18:12
Hadley
Like I want them to feel comfortable that I've got their back, that all other teams are like expecting this and they're not going to be blindsided.
00:11:18:12 - 00:11:30:05
Jessica
It's such an important of all of this too. And you mentioned change management, and I agree there's no like set time frame timeline. There's a roadmap for getting things done for piloting and scaling.
00:11:30:07 - 00:12:01:14
Jessica
But change management and change leadership is ongoing and it encompasses all of these things, communications and all of that drives culture, which is a big part of it and this sustained effort from all layers of the organization. But I think you hit the nail on the head with the leading by example piece of it all is that I feel like I see this a lot and where I see this a lot, but I still feel like it's not really taking hold yet in the majority of organizations that leaders need to lead by example, and they're a big part of it.
00:12:01:14 - 00:12:21:00
Jessica
And while this can be a bottoms up, a middle out and a top down movement, it has to be all of those things. It can't just be leadership saying that you have to do a I. And I still heard that this week from a brand that we're getting pressure to do. I but you can tell the leaders don't really do it themselves so they don't know how to talk about it.
00:12:21:00 - 00:12:36:09
Jessica
And so I think leading by example is just such an easy yet such an important way that leaders need to show up for their teams and really drive that culture, just as you said that it's safe, that it can have an impact in understanding what type of impact that can even have on your team.
00:12:37:00 - 00:12:53:13
Yadin
Yeah, there's two things. One is that the leading by example, because I personally was experiencing this and I think we talked about this before Jessica, where like, okay, CEO says everyone has to use cursor now on a care like what you're using it for, but you got to use it, you got to generate code, you got to build stuff actually built like a bed video game, which was super fun.
00:12:53:19 - 00:13:10:09
Yadin
Like this little person you jump through. It was super fun. 15 minutes. I have a video game now.
Jessica
Congratulations
Hadley
Oh, it’s crazy. I’ve got to tell my husband.
Jessica
I don't have a video game.
Hadley
My husband is going to freak out. That's where I'm going after this.
Yadin
Yeah, going to cursor create a video game. But the thing is, well, there has to be something behind it.
00:13:10:09 - 00:13:27:08
Yadin
So there was sort of this gap on sort of this air pocket which kind of stalled because where's the follow code? Great. Everyone has cursive licenses, What do we do? But then it built up and it was like that was bottoms up. Like you're talking about Jessica, because it has to come from everywhere. Then everyone's like, okay, we're building stuff.
00:13:27:08 - 00:13:40:07
Yadin
We're building demos. All through the developer relationship. People start building demos and doing demos and showing everybody. And then other people just kind of came and say, Hey, this is what I did with it. And there were sharing, and then that created the momentum. So there has to be sort of, Hey, we've got to talk about top down and we got bottoms up.
00:13:40:09 - 00:13:56:15
Yadin
I like middle out. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what middle out is. Maybe you can get to go over that Jessica as well. But then the other piece is the sustainable part. I think you mentioned that. What's that sustaining piece of it And that's the tough part is like, Hey, I did this one thing like someone said I wrote the script or you had to write a script and it did this one little job for me.
00:13:56:17 - 00:14:17:23
Yadin
Create that's a one off and that's great. You're using AI. So I think there's a big difference between using A.I. and leveraging AI. So those two are very distinct and there's a lot of using, I feel like in people who are embracing it, figure it out. I feel like I even fall in this category. I use it, but I don't feel like it's super, super integrated to the process is like you're talking about where are those processes?
00:14:17:23 - 00:14:44:11
Yadin
You said how they like that we hold on to and we love. I don't see it yet constantly built in to the processes of we do it this way, then this I think does this thing. And then there's automation. And here I see tools like he exploded into this database or exploded into this thing, but there's not that, Hey, A.I. is a part of how we do this because like you, I think both mentioned, there's people who are afraid that someone might get mad at them or they feel like they're not good enough.
00:14:44:13 - 00:14:58:00
Yadin
That's why they're using A.I. or some people even. Maybe you got guys experiences will say, This is my superpower now, this is now. I've got this. Why would I share it with other people? Because now I can do this faster and do this really better. And like and I'm not even going to tell you what I'm doing. Hey, I.
00:14:58:01 - 00:15:19:22
Yadin
And I'm going to let everyone think I'm like, super amazing or something like that. But yeah, there's challenges.
Jessica
Well, Hadley, you mentioned this idea of the copilot, the thought partner, right? You might say, and I love the upskill motivational message you have for your team and it almost feels very employer brand for you in terms of getting people on the content team to upskill them for their career.
00:15:19:22 - 00:15:44:02
Jessica
I mean, I think that's an amazing employer brand and strategy for your team. But I think it's easy. And the copilot thought leadership seems to get lost in that ad hoc in the really experimental I still feel like it's experimental, even though you're using it every day. It's like, Oh, let me try this. Let me try that. That cursor experiment for you had nothing to do with your job but was learning.
00:15:44:02 - 00:16:04:03
Jessica
But like, how are you getting your team to anchor back into the main jobs to be done? Because I think that's where you find those repeatable parts of the workflow.
Yadin
Yeah, and I think that we're starting to dig into the second part of the show, which is strategies and tactics and asking the question, what is the strategic content of what you're doing, what is your strategy?
00:16:04:03 - 00:16:25:00
Yadin
And that part of it is people just haven't really laid out the strategy, really laid out their process well. So then how can you apply AI to it if you actually don't have something to apply AI to?
Hadley
Yeah, that's actually a funny thing. I was again, one piece said to you and I wonder for some of these big companies that are the biggest ones pushing it over you tech company, every brand, probably every company, but many are trying to be yeah use it.
00:16:25:00 - 00:16:42:15
Hadley
They can accelerate. We can do so many things.
Yadin
Well Hadley, I work at Salesforce. We're not trying to do that at all. Just, you know, that's that's not. That's not what we do.
Hadley
No, nothing. You have no strategy. I haven't gotten sold anything from you recently. I wonder you think about it and like the reason people ask me like, why are you still at Uber after 12 years?
00:16:42:15 - 00:16:56:14
Hadley
Like, I get it all the time. I do a lot of new hire things and I'll talk to people and it's like one of the biggest questions. A 12 years. Wow. And I would say it's the people and it's the really smart people because I feel like every day I'm learning from my own team, I'm learning something from someone else.
00:16:56:16 - 00:17:20:12
Hadley
I'm challenged. I'm like, Oh, my God, you're so smart. How do I hang out with you and learn what you do? So it's like business school on steroids, like every day of people's lives at these tech companies. And so I wonder on that one, like closing it last night, It's just it's a tough one to like when you're really smart, it's tough to feel like like I think about this all the time when I write an entire brief speaking notes for a presentation using AI, I feel a little bit like, am I losing intelligence?
00:17:20:12 - 00:17:42:03
Hadley
Am I not going to be able to do it again if all these tools just went away one day and a new thing happens? Do I have that skill set? Am I losing knowledge as a runner? For a long time in my life and I get repetitive motion. It's like you got to grind to get better. And so I do wonder if that's the thing too, for some of these big companies and like ourselves, like a lot of people, your knowledge is your brand.
00:17:42:03 - 00:17:59:08
Hadley
And so how do you bring AI into that in the future? But outside of the strategic intent, of course, of what I'm doing
Yadin
No. But I think you're going on the right thread, Ali, because the value of an individual like what is their power? What is their value, What are they bringing the job? Not necessarily like you're a really good researcher.
00:17:59:10 - 00:18:24:14
Yadin
You're really good at going the Internet and looking stuff up and synthesizing information. Maybe you're really good at asking the right questions. You're really good at finding the strategic content like the who's it for and what's it for and how do you know it's working Part of it. And you know what good is and you have an instinct for what is going to help tell a story or help create a market or help improve a workflow.
00:18:24:15 - 00:18:38:07
Yadin
But that's a weird sort of nebulous thing because people are like, well, how many years experience you have and this system or that system, what have you done here? And what you really want is proof of impact of what did you do, how do you do it, and then what was the result? We're not really good at measuring that.
00:18:38:07 - 00:18:55:17
Yadin
When we're looking at people, we just look at sort of these proxies and I think people need to let go of like, Hey, I don't need to be really good typist or I don't need to be really good speller because that job's done for me. Am I losing that skill? Is that matter that I lose that skill? Is it okay if I can let that go and just go fast?
00:18:55:17 - 00:19:10:12
Yadin
Because this machine is helping me do it? And the same thing is with using something like Google Deep research where normally check a whole bunch of different sources and I would cross-reference and I would do all this stuff. And is it okay to just let that do that part? And then I look at it said, That's bad aspect.
00:19:10:12 - 00:19:37:14
Yadin
Ooh, that's good. Let's dig deeper into that and then go that direction. But that's the skill. And where do you see that being a part of the dialog in the community within an organization of letting people understand that, Hey look, you need to move towards this as being the value create for the company and not worry about, Hey, I'm really good at doing the the managing of the chaos or I'm really good at spreadsheets.
Hadley
Yeah, I think this one is a really interesting one.
00:19:37:14 - 00:19:57:11
Hadley
I know what you all feel like, how you use it, but for us, one piece, that's another one I'm trying to kind of instill and like talk about a lot with our team and even my direct group feels like especially for content to maybe it's unique to us if we're content. A lot of the skills you need to best leverage AI for what you want it to do actually are those who are foundational skill sets of content that are the really big ones.
00:19:57:11 - 00:20:22:20
Hadley
Like you still need to be a good content designer. You still need to understand really good UX flow of like our conversation flow. It's almost like maybe you're going back to the basics in some instances, but I think that that's the one piece I've been really trying to push out because if we think about the strategic intent of what we're doing, again, we need what we do to always continue to get better and it needs to evolve and then the better needs to get better because the better every year it's going to up level.
00:20:22:20 - 00:20:39:00
Hadley
And I think that whether that scale of what you do for us like products, whether that's just like the world is changing and people have a different expectation because of many different factors. So that has been one really big piece. And so our strategic intent is to try to get better at like try to make things the absolute best.
00:20:39:00 - 00:20:55:22
Hadley
Like our vision for our team is creating world class knowledge for human machines. That's it. Like we need to create something. And so the strategic intent of our team and how I think where it's and it's like divided space a little bit where a divided were there. But I think to just this point, I'm like the tops in the middle is in the bottoms.
00:20:55:22 - 00:21:15:17
Hadley
It's almost like I think we have a bit of a anchored Northstar strategy for our organization that without Jenny I was kind of going towards a space that just enabled it anyways. They create what publish everywhere model like super simplified ecosystem. We've got to get better. We need to leverage tech to accelerate how we manage content. We need good metadata, good taxonomy.
00:21:15:19 - 00:21:31:20
Hadley
I'd already put that together, which was awesome. And then, you know, we had to tweak it as I kind of ramped up. But the other piece is that we also to say, Well, how can I get us there faster? So in our strategic intent is to have that world class knowledge for human machines. Part of that is that we're now then like brain behind the machines that are being built.
00:21:31:22 - 00:21:54:17
Hadley
So we need to transform everything for its current state to its future. See, and that's where we've I think I would give us like a more nailing it is we're using it to do things 500 times faster than we could have done before. Like we're finishing something off this month that should have probably taken would have taken two years and actually someone else and another roll over the week when I was in New York, they were doing the same transformation with people and I asked why.
00:21:54:18 - 00:22:17:01
Hadley
I was like, We're finishing ours in one month and we started in May fishing at the end of May. What would have again taken us probably like two years, but we're doing it in one month. Yeah, there's a long tail.
Yadin
Wow.
Hadley
Right. I know it's super cool, but it's using AI. So we have this one part of the team that I think our strategy is being super accelerated by using it to transform to like distill information, to check.
00:22:17:01 - 00:22:36:04
Hadley
We're using it for like assessments of things like risk assessments, different pieces like really trying to ask ourselves the question, how can you do it 500 times us or not to us or 500 assessors? And then the other side is when we have the work that we do. And so we're still like doing our job, our normal job of we still need to create things for Jessica to do self-help in the Uber app.
00:22:36:06 - 00:22:50:17
Hadley
And we sold to do that. And that's really, really important. And those are the biggest things, you know, so you're kind of balancing it. Y is a strategic intent is again, that Northstar like best in class. We're kind of now figuring out how you leave that into everyone's job. And so that's why I say we're kind of taking this like, what are the skills we need?
00:22:50:17 - 00:23:13:21
Hadley
It's kind of those basic ones, but we still want people to be really solid in those skills. Like, okay, maybe you were just like more so writing content beforehand, like just really drafting. Now you need to be more of that designer, your copilots going to draft, you're going to do it, and even your intake from asking questions or getting things for a project requirement stock, that's all going to be automated because it can grab those things quickly for you and synthesize things better.
00:23:13:23 - 00:23:46:05
Hadley
So it kind of all goes back to the improvement of the end experience and the end result. And so I think on the side of integrating it fully into one's workflow, I think you kind of said it. Jessica, It's like a bottoms up, middles and tops there where again trying to like lead by example show these cool examples of how our show, these instances of how it's being used, get people using it, and then also kind of just like bring in the mindset of this will help us all move towards our goals faster and at the same time, I guess investing in some new skill sets, like we're definitely trying to say if you're really
00:23:46:05 - 00:24:12:14
Hadley
interested in things like prompt coordination, we need to start doing that like we have to build and maintain our own models to build our content. So that's going to be a thing we need to do and we need to be able to review other models doing things for us. We need to understand guardrails. So I think there's that other piece of there is a bit of literacy in some areas or skills in some areas that are we're building in pockets and trying to kind of create it as like have people filter through these roles, they get the skills and then kind of go back into their spaces and then some stay if they're really into
00:24:12:14 - 00:24:33:16
Hadley
it. But that was a big discussion too recently is how can we make sure we're creating kind of a internship program within our own team in a way to to get that
Yadin
That's fabulous. I think this is great because it's a perfect transition to the teams and tools section of the show. I think having the skills part of it and like you said, this internship like structure.
Jessica
Rotation. Yeah.
00:24:33:16 - 00:24:55:15
Hadley
Yeah, exactly.
Yadin
Yeah, rotation. Dig into that a little bit. What does that look like?
Hadley
Yeah. So we're getting on the side of like transforming what we have into this air friendly version of itself, the machine friendly. We're kind of even trying to figure out our team structure and the ways we work to be able to bring people out of their day job if we need to, and kind of put them into these strike teams.
00:24:55:17 - 00:25:21:21
Hadley
You can call it kind of like, yeah, a little rotation program. Those groups of people who are either working on the transformation itself, working at continuous improvement cycles for that specific content once it's out and being used. Because once you have it in a new use case, you have that flow of information very quickly and we want those spaces to be ones where you're unrestricted to timelines, like you're going as quick as you can and you're able to really fail fast and learn your leveraging tools to do things.
00:25:21:21 - 00:25:47:18
Hadley
And you're kind of like in the midst of all the change and so bit of like maybe build and run. But I think of it as the build side of the team because it's kind of narrow versus the run side is like your regular things you're doing. Yeah, we just opened sort of like short term assignments. We kind of bring these groups over to like these strike teams are hoping to just make it more thing we can do more, which goes back to also using it's kind of unlocked broader efficiency that we can still do our day job.
00:25:47:19 - 00:26:04:16
Hadley
People can do their jobs, what we can actually like give them the space and time to go take this rotational versus it being like a manager might be like, oh, I can't like we have a huge eats thing launching and know now announcing we have to switch our eats model in Brazil because we burnt down our eats spot a different company that's gonna be so much work for our team.
00:26:04:22 - 00:26:19:11
Hadley
So much work.
Yadin
Mm hmm.
Jessica
Hm Hmm.
Hadley
And so if you think about it, that team, my person might say, I can't. I can't let anyone my team go right now is too much. We have so much going on. It's high stakes. We want to be able to make it where they can do that type of thing quicker and that magic that like, yeah, cool.
00:26:19:11 - 00:26:38:15
Hadley
I have a few people who really can transition over and work on these other areas for two months, three months, and I'll be fine without them.
Jessica
It's a double edged sword for so many leaders because we have to acknowledge it is work above and beyond their day jobs. But at the same time it is work that is going to optimize and make their day jobs more efficient.
00:26:38:15 - 00:27:04:16
Jessica
So it's like if you can figure out this process now, it's going to make your work that much more efficient, which then frees up time for you to do those other things and those rotations. It reminded me a lot of our pilot lead process that we had at VMware and that I talk about a lot now right where you have to identify these pilot leads within these functional areas or projects, people who are willing to in a lot of cases it is above and beyond.
00:27:04:16 - 00:27:25:23
Jessica
But I love this sense with yours that we're carving out time specifically for them in these strike teams where they are going to be the ones to figure out this process. Then once you have it successful, you train the rest of the people on this process and then it becomes process adoption.
Hadley
Yeah
Jessica
We were talking about process earlier instead of AI adoption.
00:27:26:01 - 00:27:47:08
Hadley
Yeah.
Yadin
Hmm Yes.
Jessica
And so I think the more that people can recognize that is how important these pilot leads are and I want people to think about this concept of like, can we actually carve this out for our role or have a role Maybe if we move this work to somebody else who has already optimized, I don't know how you execute that yet.
00:27:47:13 - 00:28:05:22
Jessica
If everyone has a bunch of work to do, just like you're saying with your Brazil team. But I think it's really something to think about because that's what's going to allow people to scale all that much faster. The sooner you can get those pilots proven and then roll it out to the rest of the team, the sooner everyone else gets to benefit from that new process.
00:28:06:00 - 00:28:29:10
Yadin
It's funny because there's models that exist like that. When I used to be in professional services and we built something with like Apple or AIG or whatever, there'd be a ton of time where you talk about how was going to implement, what was a timeline, what is it for, how's it going to connect, What's the workflow going to be before the technology ever got in, there was months of planning and process workflow and connecting to get everyone aligned and then the technology would drop.
00:28:29:10 - 00:28:48:13
Yadin
And usually that technology was the easy part. You could deploy something, rock a stack or you'd push out a build or whatever, and then boom, you monitor it and then work through all that stuff. It feels like there needs to be something like that. I guess there's not that same culture in, let's say, marketing or operations or even support sometimes of, Hey, what's that process?
00:28:48:13 - 00:29:02:13
Yadin
We need to get that right first before we drop this technology in. And if we had that sort of process and culture and built into the way that we do things, there would be there would be lots of discussion of this is how it's going to flow. But a lot of times we're just like, well, when's this new campaign got to go?
00:29:02:13 - 00:29:20:13
Yadin
We have to get this product launch out, This thing's changing, or this is switching over here. So we have to redo all this stuff. So we basically we've set ourselves up for the situation, which we're doing so much stuff that we're not giving ourselves that workflow. Whereas in other cultures, let's say whether it's I.T devs or others, they're like, No, we can't do anything unless we do the process.
00:29:20:13 - 00:29:38:04
Yadin
Like we can't function it doesn't matter and we can't just push stuff out. If we don't do the process, then things break or patients lose their records of hospitals or really bad stuff happens here. Like in marketing, they're like, okay, well maybe the worst thing will happen. We'll have to fix a tweet so we don't worry so much about that.
00:29:38:04 - 00:29:39:03
00:29:39:06 - 00:29:54:02
Yadin
So we run fast. And then like you said, like, where's the time? Like, No, I'm a manager. I can't spare one of my people. So I like some of the ways in which you're addressing this. But I think the how is probably what a lot of people are interested in. How would you get people out of that, that hamster wheel.
00:29:54:03 - 00:30:14:22
Hadley
That's so hard? Well, it's funny, I actually was going to say, I don't know, I kind of challenge what you said a little bit because I wonder if is is and this is a real live thing right now for us. And also, I think in the thought process around where can you build and it's not really risk tolerance, like we're going to give autonomy to someone who also might be able again, more entry roles like they can make them feel like they own something.
00:30:14:22 - 00:30:33:19
Hadley
So process for us. I go saying we're so tightly tied to process that we found as we're trying to transform and introduce these things. If we give someone a process, it's actually like they wait just until they have everything they need and then they question it because it's like, Well, your process didn't account for this edge case. And so I only challenge it and like…
Jessica
Because they weren't involved, right?
00:30:33:21 - 00:30:54:03
Hadley
They weren’t involved. They didn't get input. It doesn't flow into my it doesn't work for tier four, it only works for Tier three. And so I think it's a interesting double edged sword of like, I actually wonder and I've been listening to a few podcasts, I feel like I in general disrupt so much that I think the thought process is like, do you just kind of throw caution to the wind in some instances and sort of jump in?
00:30:54:05 - 00:31:07:14
Hadley
I don't know. And again, I think some of that is a luxury. Certain roles that can do it, because a lot of times you can't say to your point, like, how do you make the time? The one thing it goes back to like a practical like the how so the how is that we did have a strategy. We do implementation.
00:31:07:16 - 00:31:30:20
Hadley
I should probably reference it.
Yadin
Gold Star.
Hadley
but we actually developed it like early 2024. But I would say, you know, the interesting is it's been tougher than we thought. It's more challenging. It was not like we had as March 24 and we had this thing, we had the tool, we had these fancy kind of comms and branding. It didn't end up like now 25, am I where I thought we would be with the adoption of it and everything?
00:31:30:20 - 00:31:52:07
Hadley
No, but I think our strategy was I do still stand by. I think it's a really good strategy. I think we just we're transforming in so many other ways. At the same time, to be honest, what we really tried to do it build it in the flow of work, don't take someone out of their work. And so that was our huge thing that we still stand with is that anything we want to create for our team, Our team sent a draft in Google verses in a CMS just because of the way that they work.
00:31:52:07 - 00:32:12:19
Hadley
I think because of the collaborative nature of what they're doing, a lot of times and they have to do a lot of feedback has just worked better. And I think we've just grown up in Google culture for some reason. And so we instead of putting the AI solution to asking, Hey, go into the isolation and do it, or asking our engineering teams to build it into our content management system, we right off the bat built all of our solutions into Google.
00:32:12:19 - 00:32:29:14
Hadley
And so we asked the AI partner to actually just like build it into Google sheets for some things, like if you want to go create one voice, you go into this Google sheet, you give it the context, it spits it out in there. Then if you want to do it in a Google doc for a different draft, more of like an article, you do it in a Google doc.
00:32:29:14 - 00:32:43:03
Hadley
And so it's all built into the flow of work there. And we actually like had the models integrated and had a that was like our prerequisite for our building, which that was the whole goal is that we wanted to meet people where they're at, not take them out of the flow of work, not even notice that you're using it.
00:32:43:03 - 00:32:58:22
Hadley
It's just right there. But it's not the like standard version. It's like the specialized version that has all of your special things in the back end. So that's an maybe it's an interesting use case of, like I say, I still stand by it, but it's been challenging and we still haven't gotten to maybe that level that I would have thought.
00:32:58:22 - 00:33:13:00
Hadley
And that's where I question the people aspect. Like the people ask, Do you have a question? I will tell you, I said it. When are the skills coming? I think we waited. Everyone was waiting for the skills to come. And I was like, I think we're waiting for everyone to use it. And I think it was a really good reflection as a leader moment.
00:33:13:00 - 00:33:31:21
Hadley
I'm kind of like I give myself like a D in recognizing and maybe like quicker reaction and pivoting because I think we're kind of at a stalemate, almost like they want more process where skills and we were like, here's the thing. So it's a really interesting one to reflect on.
Jessica
We look at the process the same way too, in terms of integration, driving adoption.
00:33:31:23 - 00:34:02:02
Jessica
The more that you have to pivot in applications and systems, the harder it is for people. It's just like standard landing page CTA marketing practices, right?
Hadley
Yeah.
Jessica
So I think people forget or sometimes don't realize, and this is everyone wants to see what everyone else is doing, like how easy it is to build it into the systems you already have today, whether it's SharePoint or whether it is your Google sheets or Google Drive, where you can build in those processes and then it's specific to the job.
00:34:02:04 - 00:34:30:16
Hadley
I think that's the big change too. It's not like you're logging into the system and having to think like, What am I here to do today? You're doing your job in Excel, Google Sheets and Google Docs, and then it's there because now it's part of the process and hopefully you've done training on that process recommendation, but you bring up a good thing that the more that we can involve people in that process creation, the more ownership they feel over it, which is where I keep thinking, hoping that those pilot leads are peers of that team.
00:34:30:17 - 00:34:51:03
Hadley
Yeah.
Jessica
So while not everyone was involved in the piloting, you have somebody who is a peer of theirs who does the same process and therefore can relate and really resonate with the rest of the team and be an influencer from that sense. Did you see any of that?
Hadley
Yeah, I think we do. And it's interesting we're seeing them kind of come out now as well as we're all talking about it more.
00:34:51:03 - 00:35:07:04
Hadley
And that's the idea is actually I was talking to some people like in all these roles, like, well, what would you change? Like what would help adoption? That's that everyone said. Everyone's like, I think it's the show versus tell and it's that component of change management software is a bunch of emails. So again, good reflection of your point on creating these little pods in these groups.
00:35:07:06 - 00:35:26:15
Hadley
I think it's giving them that autonomy to be those peer leaders and to be sharing and then also raising them up, like giving them that platform to share and also like celebrating it. There's such a celebration culture, which is I think, a super cool. It could maybe also if you look at it's like, you know, people are constantly sharing in select channels, lots of emojis.
00:35:26:17 - 00:35:52:05
Hadley
My team did this like we created a podcast. So notebook 11, you're like, Oh crap, I haven't created a podcast yet. And again, on this podcast thing, which by the way, it's so easy. It is frightening.
Jessica
Yes, yes.
Yadin
Yeah, it's a one click. Yeah
Jessica
I'm so passionate about this aspect of it, giving people the opportunity to step up and lead and then supporting and giving them visibility in that leadership.
00:35:52:13 - 00:35:53:21
Hadley
Yeah, yes.
00:35:53:21 - 00:36:16:21
Jessica
And it's so important to culture and driving change because so many things you just touched on, you're giving people whatever kudos means to them in your organization. And it can and should mean different things based on the levers you can pull so that they feel good about the extra time. This is so career defining for so many people who are stepping up to lead, no matter what job you have.
00:36:16:23 - 00:36:46:00
Jessica
And then you hope that it motivates other people around you. So you're starting to get that influence and that extension of the culture factor to be like, Oh, I've never thought about that, or I should really try that or actual showing people that it is working those quick wins, but also keeping that momentum. That's why slack cultures or teams are so important to driving all of that, like having a team of people who are also responsible for keeping those online communities alive.
00:36:46:00 - 00:37:23:13
Jessica
In terms of that sharing, really important.
Hadley
Yeah.
Yadin
Oh yeah, that's critical. Yeah. That people will step forward and really keep the effort going. So I think we've kind of slipped into the impact section of the show. We're kind of wrap up. I don't think you're being too fair there self hardly about giving yourself like a D for like not recognizing because you still find that and Jessica, I'm sure can attest to this because she sees tons of people see how far you've gone just in your thinking which is a huge component of this and the cultural shifts that you're done and then actual efforts and things you've actually implemented in the workflows you've automated way
00:37:23:13 - 00:37:41:10
Yadin
ahead of so many companies. But it's like tough, like you said, like it's like, okay, now we're this good. We got to get even better. You know, it's like the old saying, the better you get, the better you better get.
Hadley
Yeah, totally.
Yadin
And so you're caught in that. But just give us a couple of sort of celebratory pieces of, hey, these are some of the big impacts that we saw.
00:37:41:13 - 00:38:00:17
Hadley
Yeah, totally.
Yadin
We shifted culture. We did this piece. What were some of the big wow you step back and how they maybe even like, wow, did we really do that?
Hadley
Yeah, well, that was my one. I think when we were we were having to share some updates for leaders recently and I think you're like, so heads down. I think had we talk about a lot associated with I'm sure you all do like, you know, we're in the forest in the trees.
00:38:00:17 - 00:38:21:10
Hadley
It's one of our cultural values, like see the forest and the trees. And I think about it a lot because sometimes some of my team said, Well, you don't want to take nap in the weeds. Then I was like, I don't. I think I am. I was like, I think I'm napping over here.
Yadin
What if they're really soft weeds, though?
00:38:21:12 - 00:38:41:17
Hadley
So that’s what I said, I like the product weeds. It's really interesting. I've actually I've had to find myself like pulling myself out. I enjoy, I really enjoy, like, getting deep into these things. I think before I was like, you know, deep in the customer as far as I can do tickets myself. Now I'm like, Wow, I want to get deep into one handwriting content and then understanding what great looks like and then translating that to AI.
00:38:41:17 - 00:38:59:19
Hadley
And that's like a fun activity. And I'm like, This is amazing. And then also just seeing the backdrop. But I had to put my forest hat on and become a leader again and go back to that. I had to share out an update on behalf of the team and this like really cross-functional workgroup that we have enabling a lot of the big implemented pieces that we're building.
00:38:59:19 - 00:39:14:14
Hadley
And it was super cool. I think we've made so much progress and that was the 500 acts like we really a year ago we were kind of grappling with one. What does AI optimized knowledge look like? Like we had a vision, but I think at that time to the world was changing so quickly and as we were building things, we were like, but is it that?
00:39:14:14 - 00:39:28:11
Hadley
Is it not? So I think we all stuck to a vision, and I do think it took us a little while to actually like operationalize, maybe because of those back and forth, like everyone is in such a turmoil of what is this mean, What do we do? How do you go quicker? Who can go quickest? And then we just did it.
00:39:28:11 - 00:39:42:18
Hadley
And we use AI to do all of it, which is amazing. And so that's that amazing thing I got to share. I was like, or everyone we were hand reviewing like these fake news to try to get them ready. And then we also were just putting it back like the regular section or rewriting them into sort of a different format.
00:39:42:20 - 00:40:05:15
Hadley
No, no, no. Now we've taken every single piece of content we own, and in one month's time through AI, we've taken all these things and we've distilled them from millions of pieces down to one core facts for these specific pieces that are then going to be right format, right structure, have the right. They're creating the taxonomy structure all their AI data to then power these air experiences.
00:40:05:15 - 00:40:22:01
Hadley
And we did it super quick and that's crazy. And you know, you needed product partnership to enable the readiness to absorb that stuff. You needed our team to build the models, to do the distillation. You needed legal to partner with you and say, how can we build like a legal risk flag or to think about things in a different way to and say some are really low risk?
00:40:22:01 - 00:40:38:20
Hadley
Like that's literally just you telling someone to in fact don't need to review it, just put it in there. And so I think that was the biggest thing.
Jessica
This is the two year to one month.
Hadley
My gosh, I know.
Jessica
Can you explain it to a five year old what you guys did? Are you allowed to share as well?
00:40:38:20 - 00:40:57:13
Hadley
Yeah, I mean, we pretty much just took all of our content stories as they exist today. And to my point in our vision of machine friendly best in class, machine friendly content, we took it all, put it through it A.I. model, and out came our version and our definition of AI friendly content.
Jessica
How many pieces of content?
00:40:57:13 - 00:41:30:20
Hadley
It's a lot. let's just say, like or in like the millions of pieces. And we came down to, like, the facts. Yeah. And the fact there are a lot less, there's a lot of duplication. What we do, there's a lot of things you write multiple times for multiple different systems. But I think our fun one is we tell people like 1600 different versions of forgot password and content.
Jessica
So millions of pieces of content distilled into best in class, your brand customer centric F.A. Qs that are and then being sent back into the product right?
Hadley
Then being used by the product.
00:41:30:20 - 00:41:49:23
Hadley
Yeah. And super cool. And then it's also the business piece where we take out that concept, kind of the tone of the brand, because this is just that pared down fact that's going to use the machine to build back in. And then we work on the guardrails and we say, Well, this is what good sounds like and this is what the guardrail should be of how do you create the right persona tone or something for a specific use case or early days on that one.
00:41:50:01 - 00:42:08:22
Hadley
But yeah, that's it's and it goes back into the model or to the machine.
Jessica
What about the team that's doing it by humans? Did you figure out what the reason was behind that and were you able to convince them otherwise?
Hadley
Good question. I think maybe we do a follow. We have a chat. I think think it's such a hard thing to crack.
00:42:09:00 - 00:42:23:05
Hadley
We have some really cool people on our team who just have the experience and have done some of these things before and have really kind of pushed envelope that helped so much. I think when you've got people have been like, Hey, I've been here, I've kind of done this before. But I think, yeah, what I gathered is someone some industries are more risk averse.
00:42:23:07 - 00:42:39:00
Hadley
We are a risk averse, but I think internally in tech we operate in a lot of spaces that have regulatory. But as long as we can really do the right thing, truly and again, have the right cross-functional partners like legal and those involved, we'd also take some risk in good ways. And so I think that's one thing. I think some industries just aren't.
00:42:39:00 - 00:42:56:14
Hadley
It's tougher probably to say, Hey, I'm going to use A.I. to create all this new content, like our product and tech partners are coming to alignment on what AI optimized content source is, seem simple and it seems like should be it. But I think you probably get stuck I think they're kind of stuck in between us just as a knowledge expert on that.
00:42:56:14 - 00:43:12:19
Hadley
Or it is the product expert and is it like JSON file or is it a different structure of my thing? You know what, what is it? So I think it's that I'm sure there's so many people we talk to a lot of other people in the same boat. There's really stuff kind of between even support from like leaders to do the transformation.
00:43:12:20 - 00:43:32:08
Hadley
I don't know. That sounds crazy. How's it going to go?
Jessica
I think you've hit on the theme there that I like to touch on as well as people. If you guys notice that it's come up a few times in our conversation today.
Hadley
Yeah.
Jessica
And it really comes down to the talent on your team, the willingness and support of your leadership team, but also the people who are leading this.
00:43:32:08 - 00:43:50:19
Jessica
And I feel like we say this a lot, but tech doesn't drive transformations. People do. And so it's so important you can have two teams doing the exact same thing and one team is going to get results and the other team isn't even going to want to start and it comes back to people.
Yadin
Yeah, that's huge. It's actually huge.
00:43:50:21 - 00:44:08:06
Yadin
All right. So now we've come to a lightning round section of the show. Hadley This is what would you do, A quick hit. Each person on the show shares one thing that either happened recently use project experience or, something you want to rant about, rant or rave. I've got a rant today for sure. I'm about to Geneva. I'm sorry, I in general.
00:44:08:07 - 00:44:27:07
Yadin
And you have one top of mind. Hadley, do you want to talk about?
Hadley
I don't know. I think it's a generic thing. I feel like I live and breathe. Hey, I even though I'm not like an AI professional, but one thing I think is trying to understand all sides of it so that concept, yes, sustainability is that we're about a year ago, the discussion wasn't everywhere, which is interesting.
00:44:27:07 - 00:44:46:18
Hadley
So I know it's a hot topic now. It's something we've been kind of talking about a little bit since last year, just more like forums. So I just said, listen to your podcast recently that I thought was really interesting in terms of how can you see the good and what can I do to actually improve and like think about the future of sustainability and is it kind of like the medical side too?
00:44:46:18 - 00:45:09:12
Hadley
It's like, can I help us to completely break the mold of how we're doing it today and actually get us to more sustainable, say, even though at the same time there are so many downsides to how it's having to be powered. So it's more of just that thought process of I think I'm truly grappling with. I feel like I'm so all in on enabling these things and I use it day in, day out, and I'm building strategies too, but there's so many sides of it.
00:45:09:12 - 00:45:33:08
Hadley
So I'm trying to kind of develop and like look more in terms of the opinions that I have on that. So that's kind of my lightning rod as I'm learning, which is a good thing. And I'm trying to understand deeply and be smart and what is it, you know, kind of like true responsible use.
Jessica
Yeah, it's definitely I can tell you a question coming up from a vendor standpoint way more than it was a year ago, to your point.
00:45:33:09 - 00:45:50:19
Hadley
Yeah.
Jessica
And I love how Paul Roetzer recently put it. I can't remember which if it was the state of AI or a podcast or what it was, I don't know about anyone else, but I listen to a lot of Paul rates from the marketing and to do it, but it's the risk reward conversation and it's the same thing from an IP standpoint.
00:45:50:19 - 00:46:09:21
Jessica
It's is the reward of this optimization hitting our growth goals. What this is going to do both for me personally and professionally for our business is does that outweigh the risks right now? Even if you think about it, you can think about different things. And I love your point of view using AI to think about this. A thought partner even too.
00:46:09:21 - 00:46:30:15
Jessica
But I don't drive to work anymore. There are a lot of different ways to justify how your life is being sustainable. And maybe you can't change anything with AI now, but you can make small changes that add up over time in other ways.
Yadin
No, I think that's good. I think it's something that's good. That's top of mind as well, because that's long term interests are really, really important.
00:46:30:15 - 00:46:46:03
Unknown
So I think it's important topic. Mine, of course, is not nearly existential, it's more of a rant. So vibe coding is a new thing. I think it's under capacity. I think he was the first one who kind of made it famous, like, Hey, look at English is going to be the most prolific programing language, the most popular programing lingo.
00:46:46:03 - 00:47:05:07
Unknown
So I started using like I was talking about, made that game. And that's part of like you were talking about hardly getting smarter, really pushing yourself to I don't have time to code like I can write code. Absolutely. Let me do this and let me find use cases. The thing is, though, there's some of the same sort of hallucination and issues, though, when you have, you know, somebody writing code for you as well, where you write the code and you try and run the code, it's as well.
00:47:05:07 - 00:47:21:05
Yadin
I can't find this. You put it somewhere, so go find out where the thing was that you're supposed to run is like, I can't find this dependency. I'm like, Well, you're the one who created the dependency. Why don't you go figure out where you lost it and you're finding sort of the stumbling blocks? I thought it going to take me like one prompt.
00:47:21:05 - 00:47:37:02
Yadin
I'm like, I'm going to do a one prompt creative video game. But it took about 15 minutes like a back and forth and like errors and errors and errors. And I came, It looks terrible and like, let's fix this and let's fix that. But at the same time, to a good part of this rant, which is got me out of my comfort zone of like no code can be a part of my job.
00:47:37:04 - 00:47:54:15
Yadin
Yes. And this is a fun way creating a better video game, you know, where someone jumps around like Super Mario Brothers. That's fun. But then it shows you like you guys are talking about the quick win of, okay, I can do this. But at the same time too, you have to put energy into making it work great because it doesn't work right completely out of the box.
00:47:54:17 - 00:48:25:04
Yadin
But you have to change your behavior.
Jessica
I need another podcast episode on how you're using coding for work for marketing because I need to hear more about that. But I think you're touching on another really important human trait, and that is tenacity, because I think that the people who are succeeding right now with AI are able to continue to push through that barrier of it didn't work how I thought it would that first time, and the people who are stuck didn't work and not coming back.
00:48:25:06 - 00:48:48:11
Jessica
Everyone has had that experience. But the ones that you really care about getting right and you keep going and pushing through that, now you're seeing ten X, whatever it is of the process. And so I think the high risk tolerance, the tenacious trait among the other things of those people and empathy in critical thing that we talk about are just really important to people who are succeeding right now.
00:48:48:13 - 00:48:50:22
Yadin
Is that your lightning round, Jessica Tenacity?
00:48:50:22 - 00:49:03:17
Jessica
You know what? For time it is. Be more tenacious.
Hadley
Love it, love it.
Yadin
Fabulous. There you go. Yeah. So stay curious and stay tenacious. That'll be Jessica's, there.
Hadley
I’m going seal that one.
00:49:04:09 - 00:49:11:16
Yadin
Right, well, this has been absolutely wonderful. Hadley, thank you so much for joining the AI Edge podcast.
00:49:11:16 - 00:49:18:14
Hadley
Thank you.
00:49:12:11 - 00:49:12:22
Jessica
Thank you, Hadley.